Unpacking Truths
Dive deep into God's word and unpack divine truths for today's life journey. In a world where everyone is seeking, join us as we guide you to find hope and power in God's timeless wisdom. If our discussions spark questions or ideas, reach out to us at UnpackingTruths@LOCChurch.com. Don't forget to Like, Share, and Subscribe, allowing us to continue helping people unpack God's truth for their lives! Hosted by Pastor Kendall Koenig and Pastor Maureen O'Connor of Light of Christ Church in Algonquin, IL.
Unpacking Truths
Time-Bound vs Timeless Scripture
Can the ancient texts of the Bible still speak to us today in a modern world? On this episode of Unpacking Truths, join Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo as they navigate the delicate terrain between timeless and time-bound scriptures. We begin by dissecting directives from Deuteronomy 13 and Paul's instructions to the Corinthians, revealing why some biblical commands were meant for their historical context and not for today's application. Through this, we emphasize the critical importance of correct scriptural interpretation to truly understand and hear God's word.
Ever felt the frustration of being told you're not taking the Bible seriously? We confront this head-on, diving into the necessity for every Christian to wrestle with discerning which parts of Scripture are eternal and which were specific to their time. Using Jesus' teachings and the ultimate commandment to love God and our neighbors, we explore interpretative methods that foster unity and love within the faith community. Additionally, we touch upon Paul's concept of Christian liberty, urging a non-judgmental approach to differing convictions within the church.
From the significance of beards to the principle of modesty and beyond, we navigate various scriptures to distinguish between cultural practices and timeless principles. Highlighting the perspective of Martin Luther, we remind listeners that the Bible's primary purpose is to bring Christ into our lives, shaping us with God's love and peace. Engage with us at unpackingtruths.com and share your thoughts and struggles, helping to foster a deeper understanding of living out faith in today's world. Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to spread the love and insight.
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All right. So today, on Unpacking Truths, we are going to be talking about scripture, some of which is timeless, meant for all time, all purpose, across the universe. All that good stuff, and some of which should really be held in context and was only to address specific things or answer specific questions.
Speaker 2:I'm Pastor Kendall.
Speaker 1:And I'm Pastor Mo.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Unpacking Truths, where we dive deep into God's timeless truths for our lives today.
Speaker 1:Grab your coffee, open your hearts and your minds. Come take this journey with us, as we unpack God's truths. Let us kick this off with you, kendall.
Speaker 2:Well, before I do that, before we do that, we just have to do a shout out. Thank you to Blake and his team that put our new tables together. We're so grateful, Thanks. We're now official. I guess, maybe now We'll see.
Speaker 1:I am ridiculously grateful no longer hitting my knees on that table and catching some really scary angles.
Speaker 2:So thank you. So to the topic now Mo.
Speaker 1:More important things Scripture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, you so to the topic. Now Mo More important things scripture, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well scripture.
Speaker 2:That's a good thing, yeah, Mo. I think there is this fundamental reality that the profundity and the power of scripture is because it is God's word, but it was recorded over and written down over a few thousand years of time, and so we have to to hear God speak, we have to go back and to hear it correctly. And there's a danger that, while we want to elevate Scripture and take the Bible very seriously which I know, you do, which I do, which all Christian believers do but we have to wrestle with there are parts of it that speaks specifically to a situation that may not be applicable at all times and some that are timeless. So let me give an example. There's a verse in Deuteronomy 13 that I think we would all agree is not timeless. It was time bound that God may have given this word to his people at a certain time. So in Deuteronomy, 13,.
Speaker 2:God says if anyone secretly entices you saying let us go serve other gods who neither you nor your ancestors have known, you must not yield to or heed any such persons. I think we would all agree with that. Yeah, we don't want to heed and listen to people who are leading us astray, but go on. But you shall surely kill them, Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from the Lord, your God.
Speaker 1:I mean. So we're not allowed to stone those who try to turn us away. No, we are no longer stoning, mo. Okay, no stoning allowed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so please drop the ones that you have in your hands there Mid-throw dropping stone now.
Speaker 2:And so that's one of those scriptures that God may have needed to say that dramatic word to his people at one time, but none of us are preaching on this scripture and telling congregations in our church, or in any church, to go throw stones. Let's hope not. Let's hope not at people who are trying to lead them astray. We should maybe not engage with those people, we should step away, but we shouldn't stone them. And so that's one that was clearly time bound to that moment, for whatever purpose. God was needing to say that, but that's not a timeless scripture for all time, and so this is, for me, one of the important things is, I think all Christians at some point do this, use this filter when they come at scripture that they recognize some were time-bound and some were timeless.
Speaker 1:Well, and even those who are, I'm finding are fundamental, tend to be fundamental Christians where they're like. I take the Bible verbatim, everything it says, and you know, because the Bible is very serious, the word of God is serious and and yet they do, all of us, you're right, they do take certain things. You know they don't want to be led astray, and yet they're not going to stone someone to death for having a different opinion theologically than them or a different opinion about God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or even a different interpretation of Scripture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think yeah, and that is where I think this is a crucial topic, because it is about how do we hear God correctly from Scripture.
Speaker 1:It is incredibly important, and I know the pastor of what Saddleback Church, rick Warren. He recently just had an epiphany, as he was doing, you know, diving deeper into scripture and women's roles within you know, preaching and teaching, and he had an epiphany that, oh my goodness, women have been doing these things. God has called women to do these things, and so he's hired some female pastors into his church because he realized that there were questions that were being answered by Paul at that time and they weren't universal principles to be set for women for all time, to never be changed. And so when I think of this, I think of Corinthians 14, where Paul instructs the women to stay silent go home, ask your husbands if you have a question. And we have to look at the bigger context of what was going on in Corinthians 14, which is he was addressing orderly worship.
Speaker 1:Worship was being disrupted, whether it was tongues or people stepping up and asking questions, you know and it was like the flow of what was being expressed about God was continuously being interrupted, which makes sense for that time, because women were not taught the Torah, they were not taught about God as the men were, and so every five seconds. I could only imagine these women being like wait a minute, what is, and you know what does this mean and what does that mean? And could you imagine trying to preach and every two seconds it's like wait, who is Jesus again? Wait, what is? You know what is this commandment? I mean they had their knowledge base was, so you know, so much lower than so if they had questions, just being instructed, hey, ask your husband at home some of these things if you're kind of confused, and then come back, you know. And just so that worship isn't being disrupted 24-7. Not that women should never speak.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's interesting, I hadn't heard that about Rick Warren's new viewpoint, but I think it is that classic place where Christians have wrestled with, and so I'm not, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but what it sounds like you're saying is that at one point he understood that it is a timeless word, and he's now come to recognize it's a time bound word, and so and that has happened within the Christian church, I mean it's happened around where- Head coverings.
Speaker 2:Head coverings the numerous other issues where we thought, oh, this is the way it always had to be. And then we came to go like, no, that was time bound, it's not timeless for all times. It's not timeless for all times, I think. Obviously, scripture talks about slavery and assumes slavery is just a natural part of the life of the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's really important to address that. The understanding of slavery in the ancient world and in other parts of the world is extremely different than our understanding of slavery in America. Indentured servants, that idea of being born into and how they're cared for I mean not to say that all you know, all indentured servants at all times were cared for with love or as part of the family. However, the way slavery took place in America was atrocious and horrible and evil. Slavery took place in America was atrocious and horrible and evil.
Speaker 2:But the danger then becomes is, because slavery is not spoken of in only negative terms, it's just sort of assumed as natural that that's part of the reason that Christians for hundreds of years said, well, see, the Bible talks about slavery. Okay, and so they took those what I believe were time-bound understandings of slavery in one way, or maybe just time-bound, and even if that wasn't what God intended, I think God continues to reveal more of himself, but it will always stay in alignment with the timeless truths of Scripture. Yeah, and so I think it is important for us as Christians today, in interpreting Scripture, to really wrestle with these questions Is this a time-bound message, or is this a timeless message?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think interpretation really matters too, because when I think of 1 Timothy 2, where women are told, you know, women can't teach or they can't have authority over a man, I mean the word used for authority is only used once in the New Testament and it actually means like a usurping, a domineering. And so, and what was going on in the wider culture at that time too, was Artemis, a goddess, was being worshipped, excuse me, sorry, was being worshipped, and so there was this idea already out in the wider culture that women were closer to God than men. And so they're being told hey, when you're teaching, don't do it in a domineering type, you know, belittling your better than fashion. And that's what's being addressed, not that women shouldn't be teaching or ever have authority, you know, over a man, because Phoebe taught Apollos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I think this does. This whole question of timeless and time-bound one of the areas that has frustrated me is that I sometimes feel like there are other Christian pastors or other Christian groups or denominations that say, well, we take the Bible seriously and you, the way you read Scripture like Kendall, the way you do, you don't take the Bible seriously. I take Scripture very seriously, and so it frustrates me when some people say, well, I take it seriously and you don't. And I'm saying I take it very seriously, I stand under. I have to keep submitting myself to God's word, keep listening to scripture.
Speaker 2:I just want to challenge others to say for us to recognize that every single Christian today has to wrestle with the question in some parts of scripture Every Christian says are time bound and don't apply to today. So you don't get to say, well, I take scripture seriously and you don't, I take it seriously too. What we disagree on and what we debate and where Christians continue to wrestle with, well, is this specific topic timeless or time bound? I mean, we were just talking about the question about women's roles in church.
Speaker 2:I mean you pointed to. I mean one of the other areas and we didn't say we were going to go to, but that this relates to is people are wrestling the questions of how do we understand the role of LGBT people within the church, and that's one of those places where Christians are wrestling. Is this timeless or is this time bound? And we all have to wrestle and we may come to different perspectives on that.
Speaker 1:And then looking at the story of God holistically, like looking at the whole story and how all peoples and all nations are to be brought to God in a loving relationship. And God speaks about. The sun shines on those who are evil as well as good. I water, I provide abundantly, I love all my children and all I want you to do is love right, love of me, love of self, so that you can love others well. And so if that's what we default on, that's our big number one thing to default on. I don't think we have the right to cast out or divide or separate. That is very contrary to who we are as believers in Jesus as our Savior right. He brings together, he unifies in a love that is beyond what we can do by ourselves.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think where you're pointing to is the question of how do we discern what parts of Scripture are timeless and what are time-bound Right. And here are some of the principles that I use when I wrestle with those questions, when I'm reading Scripture, when I'm trying to listen to God speak. Yeah, first one that I use is simply the filter of Jesus.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Jesus is truly God's Word come in human flesh. John talks about in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. He says Jesus is the Word, was with God. He says Jesus is the living Word of God. So that when I'm trying to read Scripture I always read it through the lens of Jesus. What did Jesus have to say? I mean Jesus actually at a number of points said you have heard it. Said, but I say to you, I mean he did that filtering. He said you heard this Old Testament Scripture, but let me tell you really how to understand that. So for me, the first filter in discerning what is timeless and what is time bound is looking to Jesus. How did Jesus engage that scripture? How did Jesus engage that topic?
Speaker 1:What did Jesus say about it?
Speaker 2:What did he say about it? I think the second thing is, is that a second filter that I use is sort of where I think you are pointing, mo, is that whole idea of when Jesus said, when someone asked him what is the greatest commandment, he said well, there are actually two Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor, as yourself that you are just pointing to love. But he pointed it yeah, love God, love your neighbor. And so for me, that's the second filter that I use is when I I should not be pulling a scripture out of the Bible and applying it in a way that doesn't help people to love God or love their neighbor. Yes, and so for me, that's that second filter that I use in trying to discern when I'm wrestling with any of these hot-button topics or any scripture and trying to apply it to today, or even what Paul says in who we're Called to Be is, you know, blessed are the peacemakers, right, Well?
Speaker 2:Jesus said that one.
Speaker 1:Right, but I'm saying the bringing together.
Speaker 3:Sorry, shouldn't call out my partner here, no don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:But I was going to talk about Paul, too, and how we are the body right and how we are to come together.
Speaker 1:And so, looking at that, even as a third filter of, is this something, is the way I'm acting, is what I'm saying, something that is going to bring us together in a unifying way that brings peace and is centered in love, or is it something that's going to divide, because God never seeks to divide but seeks to bring together, and love conquers all we're told, and love truth to the light, which is, you know, that we can see things differently and still be, you know, centered in God. And I think about Romans 12, with Christian liberty, right, like Paul goes on to say, like some of you say, this is okay to eat. Some of you, you know, because of your convictions and you know your views, you don't want to eat these certain foods. Or circumcision. Some of you say you have to be circumcised. It doesn't matter. Let each person live out their walk with God on their own, without judgment, and you do what is best for you when it comes to some of these things.
Speaker 2:So, giving liberty to some of those of these things, so giving liberty to some of those you know and I think that I think Paul was so wise in pointing to that Christian liberty, because we have a tendency to say, is this the right way or is that the right way? And you know, and we want it to be black or white, it's one or the other. And Paul allowed this freedom, as you said, to say well, some will see it this way, some will see it that way. Let each live in it. Don't come, don't jump down each other's throats on it. Trust in that and for me that's the language that I've used is just acknowledging committed Christians can see some things differently, and I don't have to question your commitment to Jesus just because you see this issue differently than maybe I do. We have to keep coming back to Jesus, because it may be that I'm seeing it wrong, it may be that you're seeing it wrong, or maybe Jesus is saying I'm okay with either one of those.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And I think of some of these scriptures right Like men should keep their facial hair, and there's lots of Psalm 133.
Speaker 2:Shaved this morning. You should have told me not to.
Speaker 1:I know right. Psalm 133 talks about the high priest Aaron having a beard, and Isaiah is spoken about how the Messiah will have a beard and it will be plucked out, right. So there are these things that men are to have beards. Leviticus 19 says you shall not mar the corners of your beard or destroy it, right. So that's why a lot of Orthodox Jewish people have longer on the sides, and so there is this, because they view that as a way of being-.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they view it as a way in their walk with God. This is what I do, this is what I offer you, god, as a living sacrifice. I'm doing this for you. It becomes a symbol that is beautiful, filled with love, to mark their relationship with God. And yet for others it's like I don't think that's that big of a deal. Actually, what's more important is not being dishonest. So I make it a point every day to you know, be honest, no matter how hard it is. When my wife comes up to me and says, do I look good in this? And you're like no what do I do?
Speaker 1:No, you say you know what, honey, I think that other dress might be more flattering.
Speaker 2:You will get in trouble for that comment too, Mo I don't know, really. Yes, I don't know, I think so.
Speaker 1:You look beautiful in everything.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is the line man, that is the line you look gorgeous no matter what you wear.
Speaker 1:That is true, you bet so yeah, you bet.
Speaker 2:And those are scriptures again that I would say are time-bound. Yeah, but say are time bound, but I love how you lifted it up. Even if it is time bound and it is not necessarily required of everyone, someone could still choose to live into it as a way of trying to honor God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there can be timeless bits of wisdom within some of these time bound things. So, within the scripture that talks about women not wearing pearls and lab, you know, very expensive clothing, or gold in your hair, or silver, because I guess they used to or braided hair, but actually they're speaking of how they used to braid gold, pieces of strands of gold in their hair, which, by the way, I think is probably gorgeous, which would have been like I was like, oh yes, I'm really liking this and I like. So the idea behind it, right, is to not create divisions, right, so to not come into a space where others are going to feel so much less than when someone's flaunting their wealth in a way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's not. It's actually about loving your neighbor. Like, how can I step in this space where you know, because I do like really nice clothes and I love shoes, oh, my goodness, get me a. I love a hot shoe. And you know, this idea of braiding gold in my hair, I kind of am digging that too. However, if it is something that if I walked into a space with, that where it made others feel bad about themselves, well then don't do it, because because that's not loving right To your, to your neighbor, to your sister in Christ or to your brother in Christ. You know, don't talk about the fact you have boats and multiple homes and different things If, if the space you're in, those other people don't have those things or they're actually kind of struggling. And that's what it means to be loving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, and there isn't a requirement not to do that, but, out of love, we choose not to do that.
Speaker 1:Can I just bring up that? You know, in Exodus 22, we're told that we are allowed to kill an intruder who comes into our home, but only at night. If it's daytime, no killing time. So do you think that one's timeless or time bound?
Speaker 2:I think we're debating that in the laws of the states of this country right now. You know, I think the other thing, mo, for me that becomes critical in understanding Scripture is I love what Luther said and I took a year of no, two years of high school German, so I know just a little bit, but he had this phrase was Christum triped and what it was that what carries Christ, what it was that what carries Christ, that his point of the Bible is. The importance of scripture is not that it's this chiseled in stone moral code that we sort of slam on each other. That what the Bible is about is. It is about carrying Christ to us. That what the Bible's purpose is is for those of us who live now 2,000 years removed from Jesus. It allows us to hear Jesus speak. That, if Jesus is God, come in the flesh. That the Bible is important because it allows us to connect, to hear, to listen to, to be shaped by and molded by Jesus. Jesus is the heart of scripture.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and as followers of Jesus who are called to look like Jesus, always going back to that and thinking am I living out God's love in the world? Am I living out God's peace in the world? Am I doing things and speaking words that bring us closer together to be the body together to live out this kingdom, or not? And so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, let us know what you guys think about some of these timeless or time-bound scriptures or things that you may have grappled with, struggled with, maybe with friends or family, or just been confused about. We'd love to hear that. We'd love for you to leave some comments If you have any questions. We really dig unpacking these truths with you because you know what, what God is always doing, something new and always speaking next time on unpacking truths.
Speaker 3:I'm mindful that. You know the enemy will try to stifle that, even if it's just with a thought, because if he has me there the work is done, he doesn't have to do anything'm going to if I'm walking it out in that mindset, you know it's just easy. And so I think I try to be more intentional to paying attention, because it always shows up the same way. I mean cause he's not creative, so it's always if I pay attention. I always pray that God gives me strategy to pay attention to those things, because it always shows up the same way every time, it's never different. So I'm, like I have to be mindful of when this is not real, this fear, you know that's not real. So pushing past that and that's where my faith comes in.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on this episode of Unpacking Truths. If anything that we discussed sparked any ideas or you have any questions, we would love for you to go to unpackingtruthscom, or you can also email us at unpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 2:And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the podcast, because you doing that allows other people to connect to this content and grow with God as well.
Speaker 1:Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved.
