Unpacking Truths

Single or Married in the Church?

• LOC Church • Season 1 • Episode 121

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Ever felt boxed in by marital status labels within your church community? In this episode, Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo unravel the complex web of expectations and pressures that singles and married individuals navigate in the realm of faith. They explore the reality behind the myths of marital bliss and single woes, breaking down societal constructs and advocating for a church culture that champions every individual's journey, whether solo or partnered.

Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo don't shy away from the tough conversations about the unique challenges faced by singles, such as the assumption of abundant free time and the sting of loneliness. They also peel back the curtains on the struggles that married couples endure, often hidden beneath the surface of perceived perfection. Their heartfelt discussion aims to resonate with listeners who share these experiences, encouraging a shift towards inclusivity that embraces both single and married members alike. 

Navigating the dynamics of faith as a couple or as a single person can be a spiritual tightrope walk, but Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo are here as guiding voices. They delve into the nuances of couples' ministry and its implications for community cohesion, emphasizing the value that each person brings to the tapestry of the church, irrespective of their relationship status. Join them for a candid exploration of life, love, and faith as they strive for a church that reflects the diverse beauty of its congregation.

#FaithJourney #ChurchCommunity #SingleAndMarried #InclusiveChurch #FaithAndRelationships #MaritalStatus #SpiritualGuidance #BreakingMyths #FaithConversations #CommunityCohesion

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Speaker 1:

All right. So Pastor Kendall and I thought it would be fun if we talked about some assumptions, some weaknesses and some strengths found within the church, whether you are married, like Pastor Kendall, or single, like myself.

Speaker 2:

Hi, I'm Pastor Kendall.

Speaker 1:

And I'm Pastor Mo and we are Unpacking Truths.

Speaker 2:

Where we unpack God's Word and God's truth for life.

Speaker 1:

today, everyone is seeking, and we're here to help you find hope and power in God's truth for life. Today, everyone is seeking, and we're here to help you find hope and power in God's word. So let's get started on that. What are some assumptions within the church? You think about married and single people?

Speaker 2:

Great question. Well, I think we have all sorts of different assumptions. I mean, I think one of them we were talking about just before this, when we came in the idea that when we come into the worshiping community, when we're showing up to something, we usually have a smile on our face. We're out in public, we're putting on our best face, so we all see each other with our best face on, at least at first glance. So, you see a couple walking in going.

Speaker 2:

they're smiling, you're going wow they are a perfectly married couple, they must have it all together, and so we assume that they have it all together. And then we sometimes look at ourselves and go maybe I don't, but they do so I think that's one of the assumptions you know they're a Christian couple. Yeah, they'll probably have it all together. They never fight. They get along well. They raise perfect kids.

Speaker 1:

Jesus is at the center of every argument. Yes, yes they pray before they argue.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, let's get really angry with each other.

Speaker 1:

Hold on, let's hold hands and pray first. Yeah, I can see myself doing that. No, I can't.

Speaker 2:

So that might be one assumption that everyone's perfectly you know, marriages are all in perfect shape.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

So what about an assumption of single people?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Something's wrong with us Like.

Speaker 2:

I can't yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Like I can't tell you how many people actually it flows out of their mouth Um, why are you single? What's wrong, what's going on that you're single and it's like, well, I'm not sure anything's wrong at the moment, and I mean lots are wrong, but I'm not sure it's the fact I'm single. And so there's this idea that I don't know if it's just culturally or also within the church, I'm sure within the church as well that to have a good life is to be married. The norm is to be married.

Speaker 2:

Which is interesting, mo, because in our culture the percent of the adult population that is single continues to rise. I've seen that more and more. It's up to some. I wish I should have checked it before we came in. I didn't think of that, my head didn't go to that, but it is. I mean, if anything the church has to figure out, what does it mean to be a church where-.

Speaker 1:

Culture is shifting and I did look up some stats because I was like, yeah, where did this come from? And so I saw that in the 1950s, the average age to marry was 20 for females and 23 for males, and in 2020, it jumped to 28 for females and 31 for males, and so there's an age shift. There's a thing happening where even older generations within the church are like what's wrong with them? They're 30 and not married, whereas that's kind of becoming the cultural norm too. So we're getting a lot of singles in the church.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so you know, when we were talking about assumptions for single and I was thinking about that I saw assumptions going in both ways. Yeah, that there are some people that I think see a single person and assume they are single and they want to be single for the rest of their lives, that they like that, really, like I've never gotten that one, well, I think the and. The other one, though, is like oh, they're just looking for a partner and and and. So that, who can I set?

Speaker 1:

them up with If they're looking for a partner. Why don't you hook us up Like I? I'm thinking like don't you have like sons or cousins, or you know brothers, like that's? One really weird thing is that.

Speaker 2:

I just thought you said you were okay with being single, though Now you're saying you're asking for.

Speaker 1:

Some people. If that, that's another assumption.

Speaker 2:

Is this unpacking truth? Dating app Is that what this just became?

Speaker 1:

That's another assumption is that I've actually had people also say like maybe you've been given the gift of singleness, and I'm like what is that? That's a gift.

Speaker 2:

I was like I mean not that, that's not a gift, Like some people talk about it as a gift though, when you want that in your heart, then wouldn't you be like I am very content being single.

Speaker 1:

I love this life, I feel called to it, but just because you are single doesn't mean you've been given some spiritual gift of singleness. I that doesn't.

Speaker 2:

No, it makes sense. I'm just trying to figure out if you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, my partner.

Speaker 1:

Well, no, both. No, I don't think there's anything wrong with being single. You can find happiness in being single.

Speaker 1:

You can find wholeness in being single. Yet if you still have a desire in your heart to be single, then Like celibacy For those in the priesthood. I have friends that are Catholic and so if you've been called to celibacy, they feel it in their heart that this is something I've been called to. It's in my heart, but if they haven't, then they wouldn't become Catholic and they'd go on to become a different denomination and serve the Lord, come a Lutheran pastor, come a Lutheran, join us.

Speaker 2:

We need a few more. You can get married, but I mean Paul does talk about that in 1 Corinthians 7, where he it was interesting as I read the whole chapter because he talks about, if you want to, paul's guidance on marriage and singleness. 1 Corinthians 7 is where you find it. But for a lot of him, as you read it, he's given these sort of very specific directions but a lot of it was shaped by the fact that he really believed the end of time was coming.

Speaker 2:

He thought Jesus' return was imminent, and so he said I think it's best for you to stay as you are. Whether you're married, stay married. If you're single, stay single, because there's a lot of other challenges coming.

Speaker 1:

He didn't know 1,900 years would pass.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and so some of his guidance was shaped by that understanding of what was coming Context. But I do think so. Let's talk about singleness for a little bit, mo, and then we can shift over to the marriage side.

Speaker 1:

Do you want to oh?

Speaker 2:

you got another assumption. Well, one of the other things that I think an assumption is from married folks is for single people is you have a level of freedom.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

As a single person, to sort of do what you choose to do, and I'm not going to the married ball and chain sort of thing, but you're in accountability with another partner. I am with my wife, with Connie, and so before I go do something I really should be checking in with Connie and vice versa, whereas I think sometimes— Dude that you're out for everything.

Speaker 1:

I wish I had a spouse just to be like. I'm not sure.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to have to check with my husband, tell him that I can be like Connie, I totally blamed you for saying no, but here's where you can look at it from different sides.

Speaker 1:

You look at it as an out and married couples.

Speaker 1:

look at it well, you have the freedom to sort of choose to do An assumption is that because we're single we have all the time in the world, which actually I want to counter that and say we probably have less time than married couples, because you end a meeting at 10 at night and you get to go home and I'm sure the dog's been let out and there might be food made already and all that good stuff I get. I don't even get to get home. I have to stop at the jewel because it's the only place open. I have to grab something that if I didn't have milk for in the morning or whatever I need, I go home. I have to take out the dog. I have to. There's all these things that cause you don't have anyone else there to help do those things.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I agree with that. I don't think if married couples, married people think single people have it easier, they forget that as a married couple, ideally you're a team and you know, and some people are. You know one person's taking out the garbage and one person's doing the laundry, and you know, and you divide up some of those responsibilities, whereas a single person you've got all of them. Yeah, so I that makes sense to me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I feel like we have less time and we still desire intimacy and relationships, and so it's also like scheduling, getting together with friends and having to coordinate with all their schedules, and so it is. It feels so extra like a lot of work. Yeah, time-wise.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the only advantage you don't have to check in with anyone. You can just initiate and do that. But I think you're right that there is more work, there are more tasks to do, because it's one person versus two splitting up tasks.

Speaker 1:

But then you get that cool out, because you could always blame your spouse Like wish I could. But my wife said we have something else going on. Okay, so what?

Speaker 2:

you're saying is you need other good excuses to have that?

Speaker 1:

married people can use. I know All those married people are so jealous.

Speaker 2:

But let's bring it back also within the church. Yeah, and so what do you think, what do you see as other assumptions that you think married people have of single people within the church?

Speaker 1:

So like assumptions of single people, Well, well, time was definitely one um something wrong. Something must be wrong with us. I think here's another assumption that we don't want to be invited to things Like. I think that married couples assume, well, oh, she's single, or he's single, like, why would he want to come? It's a bunch of couples that are going to be there, or we have our kids there, so we just don't get invited. Like, honestly, I've actually been invited to something and then, when I no longer had a boyfriend, I was uninvited.

Speaker 2:

No way.

Speaker 1:

Like no joke, I was uninvited, I was literally text. Well, now that you're not dating that person, you probably won't be comfortable going to this with everyone, since we're all couples. And I'm like, I just got uninvited, I was, and that was someone in the church, and so I'm. You know, it was another fellow sister in Christ, and so I'm. There must be this assumption that, like we don't want to be around like your kids or families, or which there's nothing wrong with that Like I love, that, like I crave and desire being around people and even kids.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, as you say that, mo, it's one of the things that so struck me with my daughter, who was living in Houston for a number of years and part of her choice was to rent a room in a family because she wanted community around, she wanted to be, she didn't want to have she. Well, she's a high extrovert and just loved having people around and wanted to be around community, so it makes sense. I I'm sorry that happened to you.

Speaker 2:

And you know and and you know and the question, and I think it's a great reminder for us as couples here. If you're listening to this or watching this, you know single people actually like hanging around with couples too. It's not just singles want to hang with singles. So let's make sure we're extending those invites and certainly not disinviting.

Speaker 1:

And I eat anything. Just so you know, I'm not a picky eater, I'm super flexible.

Speaker 2:

So why don't we shift over to married couples? What are some of the assumptions that you have about married couples, or what do you think that are out there, Mo?

Speaker 1:

Well, like I mentioned earlier, definitely that in the church. But everyone puts on—I mean I wish they didn't put on the happy face, but often right.

Speaker 2:

Actually I like that people put on the happy face. They didn't put on the happy face but often right. Actually I like that people put on the happy face. I mean, we got to have some places to be real, but I don't want everyone.

Speaker 1:

But I get it because I've been, I've snapped off on my kids in the car and then I'm like smiling the minute hey everybody, how you doing the minute you walk into church and then you're like grinding your teeth at your kids. I don't know, teeth of your kids, I don't know. When it comes to married couples within the church, I think just that there seems to be ministries sometimes that feel like they're very centered and focused on, sometimes, couple things you mean like a couples ministry.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we have a couples ministry right, and you know, yes, yeah, like, we have a couples ministry right. And here's the hard part in that is that I'm at an age where most of the people in the couples ministry are around my age, and so I genuinely want to get to know some of them a lot more. Yet I'm not a couple right. So how does that work and what does that you know?

Speaker 2:

So how does that work and what does that? You know Well, in my sense, is the intention of a couples ministry is to create a safe and healthy place for couples to connect with each other, grow in their relationship. Yeah, and I actually love the fact they brought you in to teach on the Enneagram, as that relates to the couple relationship, because I think part of it was the idea of. I think there are things that we could do as a church. That is just about hey, people are gathering singular couples.

Speaker 2:

I think the couple's intention was just to help nurture that relationship. Where couples sometimes get pulled in a hundred directions, here's a place to focus and be together. So one of the things you know I didn't do it so much of assumptions, but I thought sort of strengths of being married in church and challenges that to me some of the strengths are you do have someone to go home and talk about faith questions with, that you, you know, or that a couple goes home and they heard you preach and said I heard Pastor Mo say this, did you hear her say that? That you have that sort of sounding board, that those can be things. You can also have someone who helps hold you accountable in your faith practice. If you're sort of getting a little lazy, I don't know that I need to go to church. If you're married to someone who takes that seriously, come on, we're going Okay. That accountability within your home can be a gift and a strength. So I think that there are a number of them as well as just the practical.

Speaker 2:

You've got a wingman or a wingwoman when you go to a social setting and you've got someone at your side like I don't know anyone here, but hopefully she does, or vice versa. It also helps to widen your network, I mean so I you know, for a lot of couples, like a wife might know these people, a guy might know these, and so they've, they sort of extend their network in those ways.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I get it that, like usually, whatever stage you are in life, that's kind of what you gravitate towards, right? So if you have kids, you gravitate other people who have those kids' age. If you're a married couple, you kind of gravitate towards couples as well. So I understand that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think one of the big challenges that I think isn't recognized as much and struggle how to talk about it within the church is that oftentimes couples are in different places spiritually and in their own faith journey. You know you will hear plenty of people who say like I was only coming to church because my wife wanted me to come more often that way than the other.

Speaker 2:

And so there's often can be then a tension in the marriage around spiritual matters. It can be as far as how do we go to worship and how regularly do we get involved in ministry? If one spouse is like I'll show up a couple times once a month, but I don't want to be involved in anything else, and the other spouse is really wanting to, there's a tension there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

As well as with people's financial giving or their serving. All of those can be places where, when there isn't exact alignment, the spiritual matters become a place of tension within the marriage yeah rather than as a binding. You know, we were joking about like oh yeah, we're gonna sit down and pray before we fight yeah more often. I sense that when people are in different places, that that can be a real place of tension oh, struggle, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 1:

But and I could say that's like anything though, when you're in a relationship with someone, it could be politics, it it could be, but definitely spiritually too. And I'm going to hit on something that I know probably no one really wants to hear. But there is something. There is this idea that I feel, and other single friends, especially those within the church, working within the church somehow or attending that it's just better to be married period, like because and I was told this even, you know, before seminary, as I was entering seminary that, like you know, even professors would say, like you should really find someone. It's probably gonna be easier to get a job once you're married. You know you might have difficulty getting a job since you're not married, type of thing.

Speaker 1:

And at that time, and I remember feeling like this sense of like, oh, maybe I should marry the person I'm with, maybe I should like that I'm dating, you know, going to be like on pursuit within the church for a partner, and that's not how single people look at the church, like whoa, who's, I'm, like, who's here to date, like that's not.

Speaker 1:

It's to be in community with people, it's to be they're my brothers and sisters in Christ married and unmarried, and it's a gift to be in relationship with all of them. And so and we're called to be together and grow together is, oh, that you know, like you're somehow in pursuit of a partner, so much so that, like anything goes, like anybody would be an opportunity to pursue. It's weird, but I've had other friends who are in the church say that they had that same sense and that's why they thought they weren't invited to things. Or, you know, people felt threatened in certain situations, like I'm not sure I want you partnering in this ministry with that person because they're single. Like married couples have said that to each other in situations where they may have been called to be a team lead with somebody who was single but they were married.

Speaker 2:

Interesting.

Speaker 1:

Interesting yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's, you know, and this is where, to me, we have to operate out of the integrity of our own calling with Jesus and our own sense of what he is saying in our lives, and so, partnering with single or with married folks, I mean, I think there are certain things that we need to do, but I think it's not so much single or married as much as just are we putting up healthy boundaries?

Speaker 1:

around things.

Speaker 2:

But to me the idea of someone that a single person can't partner with someone who's married in a ministry area, that's too bad. That really is, because we're followers of Jesus together and we got to figure out how to do this together.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I think there's much to be learned and I love I personally love being partnered with married couples, because or someone who is married with different things, because I get to learn so much about relationships right Without having to be in one. Having been married before, I know just how difficult it is to really let your marriage look like your relationship with God, and it's incredibly hard and it's character-refining Like nothing more so than parenting absolutely because there's a power dynamic there, right, and so, yeah, I know just how hard that can be. So there definitely are challenges as well.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay, that can be, so there definitely are challenges as well. It's. Yeah, I mean, I think this is an important area and I don't know if we've you know, in these 20 minutes we've talked about all the important things, but I'm glad we just engaged this topic and maybe we have to talk with some others about it too, because I think it's important, because we need to treat each other as fully complete individuals, whether we're single or whether we're married. Yeah, and open to the fact that some single people are looking for a relationship and some single people are very comfortable in being single at this time and feeling complete in that way, and that it's not like there's an incompleteness in that, and not being threatening one way or the other, how do we just see each other as people?

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. And what does it mean, as the church, to create spaces, right, that are really inviting for those who are singles as well? Not, like you know, a lot of single ministries have kind of been viewed as this, like dating space, you know, rather than maybe like opportunities of going and doing outings together and just doing life together in community in fun ways and just sharing in our life season, right, what it means to be single and all the perks and challenges with that.

Speaker 2:

You bet and the perks and challenges in being married and following Jesus in that and being in the church. So well, hopefully we stirred some thoughts inside of you and maybe even a little more awareness. And I just want to say to couples out there part of what I heard Pastor Mo saying is let's not overlook the single people around us and, as married couples to go, how are we inviting them in and including them as a part of the community here and so the churches don't become so couple-focused that singles feel on the out?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'd love to hear honestly what your experience has been like if you are single and or married within the church and some of those challenges, because this is something, as leaders in the church, that we really have to just keep wrestling with and get a deeper understanding of, as we are experiencing more couples or people who have been married no longer, and what this dance looks like of married and singles together in the church Next time on Unpacking Truths. That's why King David was a man after God's own heart, because he was always searching himself and getting real with himself and being honest and being like this is where I've fallen short. I'm so sorry, like I need to correct me. Our job is never to fix other people, never to save other people. That's God's, that's God's responsibility and their responsibility.

Speaker 1:

Our job is to look like love and compassion and mercy and forgiveness and nonjudgment and God's presence in the world. That's our responsibility.

Speaker 2:

And I think it's also. If there are situations where we are put in, we are in relationship with someone who really sees things differently and they keep coming at us about it, it's okay to just simply say I don't think this is healthy, or to simply say, hey, let's agree.

Speaker 1:

Can we say I don't think you're healthy, well, no that isn't nice.

Speaker 2:

I don't think this is healthy.

Speaker 1:

I mean, this isn't healthy, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for tuning in. If anything we said brought up any questions or ideas, let's keep the conversation going in the comments below or email us at unpackingtruths at locchurchcom.

Speaker 1:

And don't forget to like, share and subscribe so we can continue helping people unpack God's truth for their lives.

People on this episode

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Pastor Kendall Koenig

Host
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Pastor Maureen O'Connor

Host